science will science already has we are bound to self destruct. trust me. there is no hope for us look at the weapons we have * Hemlock nods we're doomed. the key is to not have that fact bother you so much they come from scientific work * Hemlock isnt so bothered by it oh joy * Hemlock doesn't care 2 much about the future of mankind my own real concern is that my death is painless and fast so you opposed to science too then, lech? the fate of others? no * Hemlock doesn't care the key is to enjoy life while you are living, and to hope that your own death is swift and "relatively pleasant" im still working on the first part of the key im opposed to hemlock saying that we shouldnt start religions because they may turn out bad later on they will turn out bad later on without exception; without exception! and it wont take long for them to "turn bad" either. wont even take more than 1 generation lech, what ever happened to Roman and Greek theology? if we accept that then lets close down all science, because science will give us bad things, like bombs that can blow everything up the safest religions are in fact the dead ones. the extinct ones like greek theology. at least that provides us with some kick ass mythological stories. its harmless otherwise :) really? * Hemlock nods it wasnt so harmless when Rome conquered half ofEurope because it wasnt dead then but if we bring it back to life, it will be harmless again? harmful most likely yess and it will no longer b dead ethnic cleansing the safest religions are the dead ones. they provide us with some cool literature and other entertainment wonder what that means we can scoff at how stupid the people were you believed in the greek gods, for instance there we go and they are no different from your christians sheep go to heaven goats go to hell :P perhaps in a few thousand years there will be ppl to scoff at the christians. christianity as a dead religion maybe there will, who knows * Hemlock scoffs at them now though Hiya Hemlock! since im not likely to be around in a few thousand years i can scoff at them now because i see no difference from them and those who believe in greek gods hem: well you will find out the truth in 70 years or 60 70 years. is that the second coming? no that is my estimated demise howevert long you end up living or is that when the benevolent god of christianity will doom us to a hell it created? if there is nothing, u have no reason to fear..but if I am right, well I pity you:) what is your belief what do u mean? what do you expect i will meet when i die i dont know lech, why do you pity us, when your god doesnt? omniscient=infinite foresight well you just said if you are right you pity me so what is it that you think will happen to me It's going well, they recorded the, uhhh.. I forgot what it's called a week ago if you're christian, you've got to believe in 'fate' i do think that there is a reason for us, something beyond this life otherwise what the point? Omniscient, literally translated is knowing all lech, sounds like you have a real good idea of what that is, dont you? right well you know as well as anyone that there doesnt need to be a point lech i think there is a point i don't believe there is any point to my cat's existence, or the ants on the sidewalk sigh, I hate it how ppl in this channel try to act so smart. politik: not anymore than anyone else the point of their lives is no different than the point of mine If you hang out in this channel then chances are that yes, uo are smart. please stop trying to prove it, k? =] thats a nice Christian thought, choirboy in fact, if you're right, you havent had an original thought since conception! well at least I dont think Nazism was a religious movement free will? god created things a certain way. the outcome is predictable. everything in between is predictable. you are predictable. if god is omniscient, then he sure as hell predicted you in your world free will is an illusion if God is Omniscient, he knows all the possible outcomes, and therefore free will can exist your choices only appear to be so because you dont share god's foresight how does THAT work, lech? super determinists rule bah. Stop! free will is a useless concept. we experience choice. everything else is mental masturbation and god does not roll dice! I think there is a crack pipe involved in this one <|PythonS|> and confusion reigns ... NO NO NO!! You are making up your own definition for omniscioent! Omniiscient has nothing to do with predicting. Being Omniscient is knowing all that there is to know it works easily: I have free will, and therefore God knows every possible outcome that results from my free will...I can choose what i want, God just knows the eventual outcome of my choices, the ones I made and the ones I could have made Lech, no lech, wrong. he knows the one you WILL MAKE Politik, no. =] what good are your possible choices if he knows they're not the ones you're going to make this is really a simple idea * Dianora-a snickers and tosses out the Copenhagen interpretation heh * Politik tosses out the Politik interpretation =] the way I see it, god is not a being, god is a force that governs us.. the god in each of our minds is different god is a shiny red car Dianora, for you it is Look, lech, you're caught. God, according to you, is all-powerful. if you say he doesnt know what you will do, you are limiting his power. you understand where I 'm going? Politik, wrong eat hot omnipotence, evil-doer goat, one day you're going to have to elaborate on that instead of just bitching What you mean by all-powerful does not mean that he has powers over things that do not or can not exist quiet from the peanut gallery. of course it does ooh, that's a first he governs existence. I cant ignore what you havent made You're ignoring everythig that's being said. You're only showing your ignorance in your eyes you see the world through dumbass-colored glasses LOL dumbass? I've never heard of that color mail me a picture of you. I'll describe it Gee is it a surprise that you're resorting to juvenile tactics already? you made a joke about my mom and then called me ignorant all without saying anything substantive bravo I've made a point and you haven't even acknowledged it, let alioone try to refute it i'd prefer dumbass colured glasses than say pseudo-intellectual ones make it again, this time a bit sharper OK, what exactly was your argument? right you've made a point which I havent refuted, but just now you cant remember your point, which you've been bitching about. according to you, I havent made any arguments No, You asked me to restate my point sharper. I'm asking you to restate your argument fine, restate it verbatim. I dont care. Quote yourself All-powerful does not mean that "god" has powers over things that do not and can not exist and then I said, hold on... he governs existence Knowing the future being one of them. Yes. no argument there. go on ugh if god governs existence... then he DECIDES WHAT EXISTS. nothing "can not exist" Not true. Governs.. oversees and controls you conceded that god governs existence *creator* bah hell to that. I have no respect for any deity that doesn't follow his own rules bullshit god doesn't suspend physics in his own advantage. would be totally without honor much like an emperor you're telling me god is a product of reality, rather than the other way around? god is a product of this universe, rather Politik, that has no basis in what I'm saying you're right. it has its basis in what I'm saying. it subsumes what you're saying so, I'M not telling you that! It has nothing to do with what I'm saying you lay out how things got to be the way they are, then were we created? Yes was the universe created? Yes, it was by what? like pulling teeth... The force that we call god RIGHT so in other words, he made the rules in the first place yes.. this is all basic stuff so we can also assume that he can change the rules try making a point.. try arguing against my argument yes of course try saying something cogent tell you what sigh.. I'm sayiong that god governs existence, much like an emperor governs a country. he does not decide the future of each and every citizen. only of the whole. smell what I'm cookin? sorry about that. the last thing I said was... it's ok.. and then I'll respond and then you said, ? I'm saying that god governs existence, much like an emperor governs a country. he does not decide the future of each and every citizen only of the whole that it? He does not decide what happens to everything in every way.. He has the power to decide what happens but not to predict what he does not interfere with explain to me why he can't foresee everything not I just said god governs existence, much like an emperor governs a country. tomorrow morning, I decree green will be red and red will be green. goat Dianora, that can be done you made the emperor analogy yes tell me about why he cant foresee THAT explains my opinion right there you said he doesnt micromanage the universe An emperor does not contro levery individual person you never said what prevents him from infinite foresight bored god goat, he doesnt have to control to foresee But he cannot foresee! WHY NOT so god isnt omnipotent he can create the universe, but he doesnt know what the fuck is going to happen next Seeing the future is not a power all people wearing red socks must brush their teeth using a broom. it is not existent what is not existent seeing the future It is not possible not even feasible why not? in any way its not possible to create new rules of physics but god did it, supposedly time is the proverbial vacuum.. The rules always existed And they had nothing to do with time time cannot be stopped.. so God is not the origin of all things? you cannot lok ahead in time what are you, some kind of prophet? only behind where do you get this shit? (Goat_boy): The rules always existed (Goat_boy): And they had nothing to do with time (Goat_boy): time cannot be stopped.. heh.. no, I'm not a profit.. so where do you get your information? and why did I know that you'd be swearing at me by the time this conversaton was done? what is time? OH NO!! the wall street journal? maybe time doesnt exist in another universe? I knew the fiture!! you did the impossible WIOW! you're a "profit" Dude, you have no argument Prophet (Goat_boy): no, I'm not a profit.. umm and? if you can misspell it, so can I You think I'm blind now? Politik: are u a communist? no Politik are you a woman? no hmm.. anyone else want to say something about goat_boy's "argument" then I can't understand why you're acting this way which I have not refuted to his satisfaction question: where do you get your information? what was before god? nothing why would there have to be? The thing is.. gonna have to quote you again here hold on this is all opinion that's flyiong around.. time may not exist in other universes (Goat_boy): The rules always existed if there was a fact.. then there would be nothing to argue about YEs, |Politik, exactly I'm arguing based on the idea that "God" means omnipotent The rules always existed you, apparently, are not They were just never discovered YES! goat, who made the rules?!?! But you are misinterpreting omnipotent! ALL POWERFUL YES!! GREAT NOW INTERPRET THAT! All powerful does not encompass things that can not happen! if you are all powerful, anything can happen If yuo are all powerful, you can make anything that is possible happen.. is it possible to warp the earth to another place in space? seeing into the future just plain can not happen is faster-than-light travel a possibility? no is it possible to be everywhere at once? politic: depends on the light well.. light has a speed of about 37 mph through some frozen jelly stuff is it possible to create planets on a whim? read a really shite article on CNN about it actually, if you wanbt to travel in sigle molecules then iit cannot be disproven Politik, it's not disproven sounds like all-powerful isnt all that powerful any more you agree that god created the rules, right? yes yes so if he can make them once, why cant he change them later? sigh its a one-shot deal? why would he want to? politic: being omniscient, he can't make mistakes revisions inmply mistakes yes, it's a one shot deal.. I know, lo-tek an interventionist god is an absurdity for lack of better words we dont know what laws govern other universes YES!! its possible there are many rules we don't know that there is a god, but if you are willing to take certain things on faith, you have to take a dramatic amount more on logic let speculation reign the existance of many rules doesnt imply imperfection lech: the exsistance of conflicting ones does. like what? gimme an example lech: this isn't my arguement. I don't believe there is any god. all of psychology is based on the idea of cause and effect. stimuli leads to predictable things god provided the stimuli you're saying he cant compute what'll happen? who is the troll here anyway? lets say this, to infer about God on the basis of our science is stupid...we simpley know too little to say anything if we give god a big enough math problem, he wont be able to solve it? hrm. looks like politic answered that question nicely. Politik, he could have made guesses, begone silly troll there is no perfect being, no perfect logic, no perfect anything goat, and god made it that way, right? yeah OK hmmmm nice logic: god made the rules, but he doesnt follow them perfectly no he can't why does god have to restrict himself to rules? thats illogical That's one of the rules, big shot which he made exactly if u are a parent and make a rule for your kid that his curfew is 10.30 pm, will that be your curfew too????? "I'm not going to be perfect, because that shouldnt be possible. I'll be the imperfect emperor of a fucked up land. Good idea." that doesnt follow any logic skyman: noisy batch of trolls up tonight....is tomorrow a primary school holiday? not here. Politik, that's how it works. ? the french had it right.. c'est la vie ewww...ircmeetings. unnatural. not to mention unsightly ok morons, I have class tommorrow...when u guys get a handle on simple logic, I will return lech, you got it ! I'm an idiot I may be a moron now...but I'm studying hard, in a couple years, I'll be an idiot fantastic maybe that's why I have a 162 score on tht silly little IQ test.. faaaaantastic *** Lech1922 has left channel #mensa heh ==|:-) <|PythonS|> none of the people arguing were regulars, except for Lo-Tek who came in about 2/3 of the way through <|PythonS|> it was a case of the neighbors inviting each other over than then fighting with each other. ==] woo woo python, just curious, but what were you thinking while watching? <|PythonS|> I don't think, I'm a bot. yeah <|killjoy|> i don't think he's a bot, either