[godlog2] Midnight Saturday 10 February 2001 nyet its not their job to know all the laws on the books um that's me. its their job to keep the peace. literally I should get a web cam NEW YORK: Senate Bill 3999-A, 1994 Creates a new law under the civil rights act (section 79-e) that states notwithstanding any other provision of law, a mother may breast feed her baby in any location, public or private, where the mother is otherwise authorized to be, irrespective of whether or not the nipple of the mother's breast is covered during or incidental to the breast feeding. then you can make fun of my room There. you should, dude i like to lure in the hng's on icq so i can abuse them lise, where is that? haha thats a good law elle's ten now. Dianora: http://www.lalecheleague.org/LawBills.html#NEW YORK go la leche league. we've come a long way here in Canada too ya la leche is great beezy, and that includes knowing what's illegal. forgive me for not checking on legal updates. You know, I've almost hoped that someone would hassle me for breastfeeding. Almost. nyet pretty to think so. but they dont *grin* lise-, nothing wrong with breast feeding in public. its just silly its MEN who have the problem lise you'd get free legal representation :) good grief that was my original point its ridiculous that it should even be an issue breasts are for feeding babies. agreed 100% its stupid baby is hungry, feed baby WHATs the stupid problem? Confucius say too much. -- Recent Chinese Proverb lise can you see a tv? beezy: no, I can't. poo hmm. my breasts don't feed any babies. don't make 'em useless :) Dianora: of course there's nothing wrong with breastfeeding in public. heh no hahaha nyet it's the natural thing to do. nyet, yea.. I read of someone getting nasty words from someone wearing a WWJD (or similar) t-shirt. there should be nothing wrong with *nudity* Her response: "you know, jesus was breast fed" the human body is not a shameful thing haha it is not something that has to be hidden and secreted away nyet thats why ny lets everyone be topless :) bottomless too no, we have a law bout that, sadly what a pity you can go topless in Ontario there was a hilarious story about a woman who was topless on her boat crossed into u.s. waters and got arrested for it really dumb blame that on the nation's laws being founded with christian views. talk about separation of the church & state moeb takes time and bucks to change em sep of church and state was meant to keep the church safe from the state, not the other way around. not with dubya holding the reins =) nyet no, its both ways round. thats why there are two clauses in the first amendment regarding religion nyet: i know, i was being sarcastic congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion nor preventing the free exercise thereof nothing about 'religion cannot influence law' thats the first part. two way street the establishment clause it doesnt have to be phrased in your preferred language beezy 'establishment' means the government cannot mandate a religion to the citizens when you get down to it, nearly *all* laws are religiously based nyet no, it means they cannot make ANY law REGARDING the establishment of religion. like, for instance, theres no prayer in public schools establishment beezy not 'christians can't make laws' beezy: that is a law regarding the establishment of religion it establishes atheism as the religion of public schools. there are no religious icons on govt buildings nyet what? you heard me. nyet you misunderstand the law. and there *are* religious icons on govt buildings there sure are there is no religion in public schools, to deny god, one would have to discuss god. like what? somewhere in nearly every courtroom in america, you will find the phrase 'in god we trust' creche on town lawn? the allegheny (where i live) county courthouse has the ten commandments on a bronze plaque on the wall. nyet then theyre violating the law. have it removed. because people violate the law doesnt in any way negate the existance of the law my parent's town puts up a nativity scene in the town square every winter. dont forget american currency people speed, doesnt mean its legal i don't think it should be, beezy well STOP THEM freedom of religion does not mean freedom from religion moeb thats a tricky one, as the treasury dept isnt technically a govt dept, but you could most likely have the stuff taken off there, just takes time and money like it or not, the religious basis of this country's existence is a major part of its history it doesnt? nyet no, but freedom FROM religion - the establishment clause DOES mean exactly that. the exercise clause means freedom of, but its one half the law 0oh, i understand (i red up) hellsap, it means the gov't can't tell YOU what religion to follow it doesn't mean you will be shielded from and never have to hear someone else's personal belief nyet because people violate the law doesnt mean the law doesnt exist. nyet no, it means you will never have to see a govt body express a religious belief like a courthouse posting the 10 commandments alleghany? beezy, people 'violate the law' by publicly displaying their beliefs? allegheny ooh, throw him in jail, hes displaying secularism nyet no, PEOPLE dont. the govt does. * beezy makes a lil note to call allegheny :) hellsap, well he is kinda saying the gov't must mandate atheism and the belief in nothing is still a religious belief no its no no im not no=not surprisingly enough, this country does have strong ties to religion as does nearly everything, doesnt mean it supported (at least not by the democrats, who knows what bush will do with the 'fundings' from the Christian Coalition) the govt must have no opinion on religion. beezy, what harm would it do you or anyone else to see a bronze plaque with the ten commandments on the ouside wall of a 200 year old courthouse? beezy: disallowing religion IS an opinion on religion to be atheist, one has to discuss god to begin with. as we learned a number of decades ago, god is not nondenominational can't get that through to you, though nyet i find it deeply offensive frankly. and ill be happy to call and have it removed just about all the 10 commandments are crimes. nyet it doesnt disallow religion, it makes quite sure there is no communion of religion and govt beezy, the fact of the matter is, the total banishment of any public religious display IS an opinion on religion no, its not yea it is it is it sure is heh someone better erase "in god we trust" off the cash. hehe while you're at it beezy, you better get the oath of the witness stand changed the oath of office of nearly every elected official in the usa or 'so help you god' from the swearing in process in court i may not have faith in god, but will i be unable to have faith in people? alt thats not in courts any more the pledge of allegiance erase every instance of 'in god we trust' you swear to tell the truth and the whole truth remove the ten commandments the pledge of allegiance isnt law its got nothing to do with anything remove them from where? coins beezy: i got hell in school if i refused to say the pledge. the governments money beezy, it's there you still put your left hand on a bible thats a big coin and you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth..so help you god. nyet not in court, no you dont. no you dont. not for decades night folks you don't *have* to say it * altrocks follows lise-'s example. hell as i said, its a tricky issue because the treasury dept, strictly speaking, isnt the govts you have the option of affirming * altrocks is away: sleeping is good... nyet its NOT SAID. theres no bible, you hold up your hand and swear to tell the truth. but the standard 'swearing in' includes it nyet go to court sometime no, it doesnt. "one nation, under god" * arryana shrugs i see the argument beezy, i was IN A COURT ROOM in july nyet then either you werent listening, or this is the same court violating the law posting the 10 commandments on some small claims court show i saw awhile ago, when a witness was called to testify the judge asked him "do you believe in god?" when the witness said no he told him to sit down i found that rather amusing the pledge of allegiance isnt a legal, or govtal thing i seriously think the $1000 dollar bill should be brought back featuring jesus 'we hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights....' well beezy, i guess it's time we tore up the declaration of independence too nyet its a declaration written by men, its not law the constitution is law beezy: why are you so afraid of religion? i wonder if the United States would be a cooler place if this country never became independant from Britain the declaration of independence was the first basis this country had for even existing beezy im not afraid of religion, im quite fond of the constitution hemlock: i doubt it. nyet its still not law hem less shootings, thats for sure more tea they why are you so determined to make it impossible for someone to ever publicly profess their faith? and wed get good tea imported! nyet people can publicly profess their faith all they want the govt cant. whther it be in jesus, allah, mohammed, buddha, or swiss cheese? so beezy say i'm a high school student you want to stand on the corner and blather on about your religion ill defend your right to do so absolutely. youre a judge and you want the 10 commandments in your courtroom ill fight just as har d i'm on the football team and before every game, i want to say 'our father' out loud on the benches i'm just one dude, publicly asking god to help me win a gam go ahead, no one is going to stop you e well already i'd be opposed to your living because you're on a football team judges, beezy, are people too. perhaps your teammates, but thats their business actually beezy, they will because of people like you nyet yes and if they want to paper their homes with the 10 commandments, theyre more than welcome. the courtroom, no who wanted religion taken totally out of schools no one will stop you from praying on the bench it's now illegal for a student to stand up and pray at a sporting event k beezy, so if i have a government job, i can't show religion at work? NO, its illegal for said student to get a microphone and broadcast the prayer to the assembled school crowd at a school facility. you want to stand up and blather on about zeus, be my guest is that how it goes for you? depends on your job and what you want to do. beezy - no it isnt thats how it goes for the nation nyet. thats the LAW er, maybe iti s what difference does it make if shout, or if i hold a microphone? how so beezy? where is the line? have you ever been at a football game? man, all of the football players are religious many times everyones shouting, it doesnt force the entire assembled crowd to hear it, nor does it imply school backing i'm not a christian a mic used does both i'm druid-buddhist. at my high school graduation, one of the students stood up and prayed hey, I knew a druid i *thanked* that student for the sentiment, that he cared about our class and was doing what in his mind was the best to wish us well nyet you seem to confuse your ideas with the law of the land no beezy you seem to confuse your unwillingness to hear things you don't like with the law of the land freedom means putting up with things we don't like nyet no, see im telling you the actual law of the land. i don't want to sit around and listen to some jesus freak scream at me from a judge's bench you can stand up and yell about zeus. you cannot use the mic and broadcast it but if i yell my head off like you are, to silence him who's gonna speak for ME when i'm the one being silenced? you wanna silence those who'd pray in public, because you don't wanna hear it * arryana tentatively raises a hand. for screaming down a judge? well beezy, who's gonna stand up for you when YOU'RE the one who's being silenced? dont make me do it how are you gonna like it when nobody can say anything that might offend somebody? * arryana is much too old. no, i dont want to silence people who pray in public. didnt i say id defend your right to stand on the street yellin bout jesus? i want to follow the LAW and silence those who seek to force others to listen to it in an organized, govt endorsed setting freedom of speech, beezy, does not mean 'the freedom to say only those things which don't offend anyone' who is forcing? hell the student with the school mic and the judge with the bible nobody is forcing *anyone* to listen nyet youre not listening i can shout out 'god is great! god is great!' and it doesnt mean im forcing it you don't wanna hear a prayer at a sports event? hell course it doesnt, feel free how's that for summing it up. leave the room don't listen man, what pissed me off is one time the banished x-mas trees from a school near here nobody is forcing *anyone* to listen nyet youre not listening pissed me off but don't you dare presume to shut them up because you don't want to hear it. it's not YOUR right to silence the things you disagree with. nyet if the guy next to me is praying, i dont care. if the yankees are praying, i dont care, if the college football team take the mic and ask for silence while they pray to the crowd, i care nyet it is the LAW i also read on the news that a school had little altars set up near christmas for god and stuff, then alot of people started making satanic altars... then it was banned youre either not reading or incapable of making these distinctions. stuff like that pisses me off... bannings hell why? its illegal. beezy, then exercise your rights and walk out. don't infringe theirs. nyet its not infringing theirs, they have no right to use school property to force other people to listen to them pray thats the LAW once again show me the law that says it's illegal for a student to display his or her religious belief at school ITS NOT can you TRY reading? the law, the law the law im sick of typing the same thing over and over quote the statute or shut the fuck up :) don't keep quippingthat it's 'the law' which statute? unless you're willing to back it up with the actual statute WHICH statute? you mean the constitution? you mean the school sports prayer decisions? what? the one that says i can't grab a bullhorn and pray in public no beezy you CAN i mean a specific law that says it is illegal to pick up a microphone and pray publicly you CANT use the mic at a sporting event. its NOT and you called *me* dense. dolt. for the like 3000th time. you just spent 20 minutes telling me i CANT you are dense, youre incapable of making these rather simple distinctions no PICK A SIDE beezy nyet if the guy next to me is praying, i dont care. if the yankees are praying, i dont care, if the college football team take the mic and ask for silence while they pray to the crowd, i care either you can, or you can't no, i dont want to silence people who pray in public. didnt i say id defend your right to stand on the street yellin bout jesus? i want to follow the LAW and silence those who seek to force others to listen to it in an organized, govt endorsed setting and if it's 'can't' then QUOTE ME THE ACTUAL TEXT OF THE STATUTE you moron what you care about, beezy, is not law. it IS the LAW. now, put up or shut up. put up WHAT? how bout them ravens then provide that law. theres no law saying you cant stand on the corner with a bullhorn yelling abouyt jesus - for like the millionth time. there IS a law saying a football team cant take the mic and pray to the crowd. simple thing, beezy if it's the law, quote it i'm not asking you to recite the magna carta if it's 'the law' then quote me that law. i have no clue what youre asking me to recite because you dont understand the law for the millionth time, show me some sort of proof of your claim no need to get in this whole seperation of church and state now... wait until bush starts ruining the government to debate about how the government runs things "congress shall make no law regarding an establishment of religion" - 1st amendment to the constitution of the united states of america i'm asking you to recite /exactly/ the wording of this law you keep bringing up c'mon beezy, it can't be that hard to find such a major statute that's not a statute, beezy nyet ok, youre just not reading anything im typing are you? go find me an actual enforcable clause in the criminal code that proves that it is 'the law' that you can't pray on a microphone at a public school ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG JUST DROP THE GODDAMN DEBATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hahaha i don't see a single word about 'student' 'school' 'microphone' or 'pray' in the constitution * HellSap does something distracting ok, the constitution supercedes criminal code. criminal codes are state based - this is federal law there are federal criminal laws there's a federal law against murder so where's the one against praying on a mic? yeah. that's what i thought. you can't list one. g'night beezy. you've been a wonderful waste of time. theres no federal law against murder you moron im finding you a case it's a federal crime to murder someone who you have kidnapped. that's a FEDERAL law against murder thats an agg law it's also a federal crime if you kill someone on an airplane, or if you kill a federal agent so back the fuck off. wheres quarf. those are laws against other things. theres no federal murder code prayers as part of an official public school graduation ceremony is forbidden by the Establishment Clause 505 U.S. 577 you're not even worth talking to beezy you're too uneducated. Held: The District's policy permitting student-led, student-initiated prayer at football games violates the Establishment Clause. No. 99-62. from the fifth circuit nyet see above is that a LAW or a court case? judges do not make laws look at the citings. WHAT? legislatures make laws any sc decision IS LAW no beezy no the majority of law in this country is based on court cases. not legislative decisions. nope supreme court interprets the constitution constitution cannot be amended by the supreme court yes, and their decisions are then LAW WoW decisions are not laws. yes, they are. we call that caselaw, as opposed to black letter law y'all have been in fine form for the past hour laws are passed by legislatures. I just damned near sprained my shoulder cut&pasting because I don't log. jesus. did you even make it through high school? anyone object to this appearing on the channel website in the posted logs? nyet you lack a very basic understanding of the judicial system of the united states gl0rie: i do =) nyet i have a degree IN THIS hell no i look intelligent and beezy looks like a nincompoop you dont know what caselaw is, not my problem. sue your school i think its brilliant log-fodder * gl0rie makes a note to delete moebius' lines from the log haha so it's fine by me shut up beezy nyet no one who doesnt know how laws are made looks intelligent :) "moron" "idiot" "imbecile" "jackass" nyet go buy govt 101, itll help i've had enough of your blabbering about things you refuse to cite reference to it's like that story a teacher assigned pairs of students to write together that ends "asshole" "bitch" nyet i GAVE YOU references i gave you two cases, with cites and quotes. well, take your pick glo, he's all three. really, what is it you require? in a week, he'll be in here arguing the other side of this haha The delivery of a message such as the invocation here--on school property, at school-sponsored events, over the school's public address system, by a speaker representing the student body, under the supervision of school faculty, and pursuant to a school policy that explicitly and implicitly encourages public prayer--is not properly characterized as "private" speech. nyet no, im FOR the first amendment for you to stop this silly crusade of yours and its interesting that SINCE i cited the cases, youve just flung insults and told me to stop.