I dunno, if I were rebuilding people from scratch, they sure as hell would have prehensile tails why DID we drop the tail thing so long ago? * ^Alia would love to have a tail don't be fooled, alia glo: been quite a while. lots of brachiating critters don't even have tails * |killjoy| shudders at the thought of what alia might do with a tail <^Alia> tails are very elegant & expressive oh good word, brachiating :) * Skyman applauds although, the trouble of the extra arm would be doubled if you had to find something to do with tails too when spooning Lo, which brachiators don't? yea, great word, id'nt it :) <-- learned it in 1968 'glo: orangutangs. and chimps. they do a good deal of treeswinging. they sure do, Lo-Tek :) any paleo-anatomists here today? * Skyman gives lo-tek the big-word of the night prize. * ^Alia still wants a tail * Skyman gives Alia a tail... <^Alia> not THAT tail :) and a nice, thick fur coat to go with it. <|killjoy|> read 'venus on the halfshell' to learn about what some humans might do with tails HOu can skip the clothes now, alia :) that is another question...a naked tail would be unsightly...whereas a tail with fur on it would be incongruous 'specially the sort of hair that people grow indeed, Lo=teck Incongruous??? Isn't that where they make the laws? it'd look dum. <^Alia> i want a boney tail w/ spikes so giving up the tail probably preceded taking on clothing by quite a long stretch of time like an ankylosaurus? I wonder if our ancestors went through a period of tail-docking before it finally went from vestigial to absent <^Alia> yes <^Alia> or an alligator <^Alia> a big thwacking tail wonder if it was a nerve issue....takes brain to control things with any dexterity....perhaps we couldn't spare the brain-room to manage an additional prehensile limb <^Alia> or were the tailed ones shunned <^Alia> because they were so stupid :) maybe a class thing at the time, yup "those no-count tailed ones" hrm. tails were long gone before critters were upright. we share over 99% of our genes with chimps... I'd say we lost our tails 3 million years ago. 3 million? hella longer than that...australopithicus didn't have tails. 90%, isn't it? zen: I've heard 99+ lo=tek, do we know thta? I don't know enough about our family tree to know when brachiators and non-brachiators diverged :\ that? sky: yup. plenty of pith skeletons around. i must be thinking of the great apes 5 million then. <^Alia> maybe losing the tail gave them the brain room to invent shunning glo: but I don't think it was solely a brachiating issue...because as I pointed out, there are plenty of brachiators that don't have tails. *** Signoff: Zen-1 (Leaving) Alia: lucky us. and plenty that do... so it is probably illrelevant. unless they came down from the trees, decided they didn't like the lifestyle of cursory hunters, and went back to the trees, sans tail <^Alia> our taillessness is irrelevant? <|killjoy|> apes ain't that great I suppose we've had tailless ancestors for more than 3 million years killjoy: monkeys are more vile and bad smell per pound than any other creature on earth. a 30lb monkey can make you lots of dead. <^Alia> lol kj * ^Alia still wants a tail alia: with or without fur? Yeah, alia... tail or no tail? <|killjoy|> a rat-tail with a tuft on the end eww :( <^Alia> just think... you could lean back on it at spectator sports... I'd take chromatophores also....(er..that's what you call the color changy-bits on a chameleon, I think) * |killjoy| would like a prehensile tail * Skyman imagines porn magazines with shaved tails. monkeys are more vile and bad smell per pound than humans even? heheh <^Alia> i would like a furry tail Naughty sky glo: by a longshot. like I said. monkeys will kill you a great deal. ooh, yeah, chromatophores would be FUN <^Alia> dog tails get shaved & they are very pretty <|killjoy|> porn magazines don't love you <^Alia> but do cats love porn magazines? <|killjoy|> my cat likes all magazines, particularly the one i'm reading <^Alia> my cat licks plastic bags (????) <|killjoy|> damn...i just realized it has been like 5 years since i bought a porn magazine <^Alia> well you are waaaaay overdue as far as redesigning people goes...more manipulative appandages would be good. I would take an extra set of arms. and the brainez to drive them. perhaps one set that is burly, and another that is for delicate work. <^Alia> you're not keeping up with your quota although, again, the spooning issue raises it's ugly head. better eyes, ears and nose. and the ability to detect electrical and magenet fields. and maybe hear radio transmissions. <|killjoy|> my cat likes to play with plastic bags, he'll crawl into them and swat at anything that passes by Plus infrared vision. or 4 legs..with totally redesigned joints. because people can't run for shit. <^Alia> a tail like an opposum would be very handy.. yuck i know.. but still very handy <^Alia> oppossum <^Alia> possum * |killjoy| has run for shit...almost didn't make it something you ate, kj? being able to gallop and canter and suchlike would be handy...especially since I hate horses. <^Alia> ack <^Alia> how can anyone hate horses <|killjoy|> more likely a bug, if it was something i ate i'd be running all the time well, it is more of a mutual antipathy. the less I have to do with them the better. <|killjoy|> horses don't fit in plastic bags every time I've ever been on a horse, it has gone tearing away for the barn, and scraped me off on the door. <^Alia> plastic horses fit in bags of course, this has only happened 3 times...not statistically signifigant. but certainly an indicator. * |killjoy| too has had bad luck with horses <^Alia> :( <^Alia> horses are good folks * Skyman would like horses if one were allowed to eat them. <|killjoy|> what is it with chicks and horses? Hey killjoy! <^Alia> the motion :) *** spacesuit (dormouse@ss-d0389.resnet.ucsc.edu) has joined channel #mensa Woo, sorry, got sucked into debate skyman desires both hehe <|killjoy|> i suspicioned as much I have heard that horses are tasty. they eat them in japan, among other places suspicioned? spacesuit: hahah <|killjoy|> you disliken my wordage? spacesuit: just go with it :) heheh lol no, its nice! it is hehe The Koran forbids the eating of horses and dogs. hrm. never eaten dog...not for lack of trying either. have eaten calf brains. they are not food. Chicks love horses and dogs and cats. <|killjoy|> lo: no wonder shep runs away from you if the koran says no eating dogs or horses, then dont do it! tastes an awefully lot like you might expect lard flavored jello to taste (if you're Jewish) :) hehe Spacesuit, it says that horses and dogs are the servants of man and that one should not abuse one's servants by eating them. I don't mind cats. dogs are inoffencive. but dog owners bother the hell out of me...parking their dog in my lawn, and looking away like it isn't any of their concern. like it doesn't involve them <|killjoy|> that's why god made bb guns *** cAhSrYiMs has left channel #mensa hrm. when I grow up, I want to be a scary old man with a shotgun full of rocksalt across my lap. hey you kids...get off my land!! * Skyman cleaned his guns tonight :) <|killjoy|> guns don't love you "My guns are my friends" *** cAhSrYiMs (asymmetry@ppp43.ns2.ezonline.com) has joined channel #mensa * |killjoy| looks around, sees no guns on irc I like the idea of guns...but practically, I can't imagine enough situations where I would be willing to murder somone over the contents of my pockets to make it worth the riskl * Skyman points to the quotes. heh sorry, i know the koran is islamic.. didn't mean to offend :) offend? <|killjoy|> islam is offensive? who was offended? * ^Alia shivers with fear * Skyman was not offended Hopefully no one :) hmmm. re nevermind!! :) wd quarf, what happened? quarf watching movies <^Alia> well! has company I thin\k what happened alia? ;) alia, why were you shivering with fear? fear is lack of understanding lack of consciousness <|killjoy|> or total understanding <^Alia> i understand guns. * Nedved is away: time out taken by the home team (rec: ON pager: OFF) hehe kill: exactly total understanding * Pladeaux loans Alia his .45 auto go get'm babe hrm. as far as guns go, the idea of that h&k jobbie that shoots caseless flechettes is pretty cool <^Alia> guns don't kill people... sounds weird as hell. <^Alia> they just make the bullets go really really fast * Nedved is no longer away <^Alia> so to the people who say.. guns don't kill people, people kill people.. take the guns & just let the PEOPLE throw the bullets :) most guns have never killed anyone. alia: I imagine they'd rather start using knives most gun owners have never killed anyone. <|killjoy|> give them time heheh ignorance in action is so frightening. <^Alia> but all people who were killed by gunshot were killed by guns & gun owners <^Alia> action? ignorance in action is so frightening. * ^Alia is baking cookies alia:some large fraction of gun deaths are suicides..around 50% in the us I think <^Alia> and.. so..? urban legend. False statistic. <|killjoy|> wishful thinking <^Alia> the gun still killed someone & the gunshot victim was still killed by a gun sky:What's your %? Alia:Not contradicting you. Just making an observation, like you were. * ^Alia still wants a tail For intelligent people you sure are fools. Note I didn't respond to your observation with "so?"! High intelligence is no guarantee against folly. Sky:What is your % of gun deaths that are suicides? skyman: very good :) alia: I hear modern plastic surgery is capable of great things I don't manufacture statistics, Jonesey. <^Alia> hehehe... Quarf?? <|killjoy|> are those oats? i know oats when i feel them...you feeling your oats? <^Alia> Quarf, can you build me a tail? kill: lol Sky:You just attack others' and offer nothing? now there's a good question, alia Alia, it seems to me it would be possible to create a tail like appendage, but the nerve endings would be a problem. <^Alia> Jonesey, the way you stated your observation made it sound as if gun deaths didn't matter so much because a lot of them were suicides. sky: the musculature and bones for a critter our size might not be possible <^Alia> and i have to go put these chocolate kisses on my cookies... afk sky: the biggest critters that actually hang by their tails aren't more than bout 30lbs * |killjoy| makes a note never to eat alia's cookies Alia:You completely misinterpreted what I said. <|killjoy|> which critters would those be? middle sized monkeys. maques that sor t of thing. I suppose a possim could be 25 30lbs of meat quite a few brachiators use their tails mainly for stabilization -- they rarely actually hang from trees lo-tek, why not a tentacle that just looks like a tail, no bones? <|killjoy|> at least not intentionally <^Alia> my cookies are good! Only New World monkies have prehensile tails. sky: hrm..there might be something to that...although could a 150lb octopus hang in air on the strength of one tentacle? <|killjoy|> afk maybe that was part of the trade-off - our earlier ancestors improved stabilization strategies aside from the tail so they could afford to lose it hrm. really? Yes, really. I would never lie to you about anything unimportant. lol brb sky: *grin* I just hadn't heard that before...trying to think if I have any knowlage that confirms or contradicts....and as far as I can tell..I just don't know alot about monkeys Lo-Tek, I'd not bet my life on it. but I did read it someplace. I only know what I read. yeah. sounds reasonable. <^Alia> well if i can't have a tail, then how about just a butt like a baboon? or one like a mandrill? UGLY alia: hrm. doesn't do you alot of good if you insist on wearing clothes. * Skyman imagines alia's butt. mandrills make me shudder * jss- hides under the table <^Alia> lol the purple butt scares me... *shiver* * ^Alia 's butt scares jss- :) :) alia: aye :-[ In 1991 firearms were used in 60.1% of all suicides and 67.8% of all homicides in the USA. There were 38,317 deaths due to firearms. 48.3% of these deaths were suicides, 46.9% were homicides, and the remainder were unintentional or of uncertain intent. Firearm-related deaths were the fourth leading cause of years of potential lifelost before age 65. [Source: Firearm-related years of potential life lost before age 65 years United States, 1980 1991. Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report * `glo_ remembers, when working at the dept. of anatomy at a University, seeing a 3-D model of a graph in the pre-computer graphics days -- two professors studying brachiarots made it with lengths of 1/4" dowel on a board, the lengths and colours of rods being the indicators on the 3-D graph it took them many months to do it - hours or days now with computer graphics morphy Did u get all of that, sky? Mortality weekly???? heh planning weekend in Vegas next month hahah indeed hrm. I've often contended that the problem with american society and guns is insufficiant distribution. if everyone were packing heat, it would be a much different society. an armed society is a polite society around the 19th jonesey.... go to hell. I thought it was cogent, jonesey Yep, that's why sky is so pissed off...lemme paste the end of it jonesey, you're a fool. If I were you wouldn't be in a rage jonesey, you are a fool. I love you too, Skyh <^Alia> isn't there a song like that in "Fiddler On The Roof"? Foucault- Crime and Punishment you are an arrogant, loud mouthed jerk. ...who loves tormenting you uh heh <^Alia> maybe i should sing which song in fiddler on the roof? Jonesey, can you spell the name of the little fat guy who was the Russsian leader during the Cuban missile Crisis? I can never spell it correctly. I must have heard that at least 300 times when my son was small and it was his favourite record Krushchev thank you. it has the "shch" character in it a single Cyrillic letter, the "shch" -- the instructors told us to think of "fresh cheese" now, jonesey, do you rember when Krushchev said in the UN, about the US, "We will bury you?" heheh * |PythonS| takes off his shoe and pounds it on his desk Sky:No, I'm a bit younger than u ahh, too bad. But don't dispute the historicity of the quote Quarf, Alia has a question for you. Jonesey, do you know what he really meant by that? <^Alia^> quarf? Sky:No, can't say I commune with ole Krushchev's spirit The American public was outraged because they took it to mean that Russian communisum would destroy American capitalism. <^Alia^> the song from "fiddler on the roof" But he was really only quoting an old Russian saying. <^Alia^> dang... i get split & you guys have a whole new argument going on! The meaning of that saying was that they would outlast us. That is, they would live longer than we would. It is the survivors who bury the dead. In Finnish, there is a verb derived from the word "Russian", that means "to screw up things" so, Jonesey, I will bury you. heheh LOL, jss :):) no you won't, skyman * cAhSrYiMs thinks this is corny not in the literal sense, glo. sky:Hm, I think any actuary looking at us would beg to differ * `glo_ stuffs silly putty in one of skyman's guns hehe <-- knows many very bad jokes about Russians good jss :) jss:like "what does a russian call Karelia...Russia"? who knows? Jonesey may get killed in a mugging tomorrow. * cAhSrYiMs is teaching himself russian :) * `glo_ pours jello-mix in another one of skyman's guns - I knew there was something I could do with this stuff sky:enough with the wishful thinking jonesey: umm, not that one - please continue jss:heehh I'm not wishing you dead, Jonesey. the g^kid got 4 boxes of jello about 5 years ago -- we don't throw them out because if we do she'll get more ;) sort of jello-insurance glo, do you like anchovies? a saw a Finnish truck driver remark on TV news, after paying customs three times on his trip to Russia, that "the Russian skeleton has 43 more bones than the Finnish skeleton, which is because of their mechanical brains." not very much, skyman - go ahead, stuff my ears with them glo, did you know that anchovies are the chief flavoring agent of worcestershire sauce? skyman: that's intersting. lol jss -- hey, was "Mordvinian" a term used by Russians for Finns or for some other group, ages back? interesting <----- quite fond of worcestershire sauce glo: I can't remember that one ok, jss term I encountered in Edward Rutherfurd's "Russka" -- not russian, of course, but anyway I should go lookd it up somewhere if I insist on knowing put a drop of it on a penny some time and leave it over nite cah it will take the tarnish right off it "Russka" begins around 400 A.D. <^Alia^> quarf, can you make me a tail? fermented anchovies no less. <-- prefers traditional Japanese Tamari anyway you have a Worcestershire bottle with a label handy, sky? indeed I have, why? <^Alia^> there they go hmmm... fermented fish sauce is an important condiment in Vietnamese cooking, as well yum:) it was for the Romans, too, come to think of it - I forget what they called it (bet someone here knows) * cAhSrYiMs likes the salty as-! you sent me a very funny file awhile ago (windaes98) -- I found a file of "southern computer terms" you'd enjoy, I think - want a copy? glo: sure.. southern as in redneck? yup, as- --- on its way * Skyman is a southern redneck. west virginia is southern? as, it is classified as a "south atlantic" state. Honest. anyone else (who hasn't seen it already) want a copy? arrived glo: me? :) seen what? sure, sym, /dcc or email? glo: dcc is fine :) skyman, "southern computer terms" backwards+poor= hickabilly...which is often confised with southern. it would "hit home" with half my coworkers, so yeah, this is more hillbilly terms if you want to be precise ;) Saw it glo... pitched it. found it in a newsgroup last week got it on internet about a month ago. *sigh* 25 yrs...I'd ask sky to bury me at that point put me outta my misery sorry you don't get it jonesey. It means to outlast someone... not to kill them. darn It does not even necessarily mean to outlive someone. Jonesey hows your chess game every play email chess pladeaux: sounds painfully slow playdough:I got so much game I need a referee * Skyman is a patzer at chess haha * cAhSrYiMs is *okay* at the game * cAhSrYiMs has only played an extremely skilled player, so he doesn't have the best record :) * cAhSrYiMs always puts up a helluva fight, though *chuckle* extremely skilled? rating? not sure. he doesn't play in tournaments he hasn't received an official rating <^Alia> hi Muad_Dib cah:interesting jonesey: hrmm.. maybe I could put you two in touch cah:Sure! I'll get him to come online I could also get your email if you want to arrange an online game the problem with on-line and postal chess is computers. one can never be sure one is playing a person and not his computer. skyman: that's true. But most people don't have Deep Blue residing in their hard drive :) I've beaten computers many times Cahs, some of the PC programs are very good. it would just be another challenge, human or not. Yeah.. I can beat my handheld chess thingy. jonesey: thanks, I'll email it to him. Actually, I'd like to play you too, if you don't mind. I'll email you then.. jonesey: so you're a tournament player? cah:Well, haven't been too active lately, but do have a master's certificate from the US Chess Federation. jonesey: ah okay :) How long did it take you in the circuit to get that status? 6 years mm.. big crowd...no noise.... cah:mm hmm as in big hat, no cattle? an oklahoma congressman? y'all missed The Attack of the Clone Monsters last night ;P it didn't last long but it was a whole lot of activity while it did oh-oh...sounds like a fun time :) 6-8 clonebots ctcp-flooding Tell us about it , Glo someone followed dianora over here from another channel -- I managed to kickban maybe three of them and by then she had them all out by other means about 20 screenloads of flood in maybe 2 minutes humm shucks I'm sorry I missed the fun sorry you missed it :) JaneLiz was here Yeah...me too first one she'd ever seen, so she may give a better desription janeliz told me about it. she gave me a blow-by-blow account when i was on hackerz about 5 last nite some marlboro.com dewd was on c-net.com with Dianora's nick but the routing server for ais was split thanx quarfie and both of them had Dianora's nick at the same time when the rift sealed he got killed I didn't see all of those, only one of the viet@* clones masquerading as Dianora-b i didn't think any more of it no this was some marboro.com or something that i had seen be4 and it was just Dianora so, the brachiator conversation lived out it natural life and died? brachialator? it's out of my buffer ?? brachiating -- swinging from trees (with or without a tail) this just in, courtesy of one of my sisters (subscribes so an astrology thing): "...from 10am CST to 12:35pm CST ... when the Moon squares angry Mars inciting temper tantrums and impatient reactions. It's a lousy time to call your Valentine." thus spake the astrology believers. * `glo_ will be watching the clock tomorrow (just to see if astrology still doesn't work) "when the Moon squares angry Mars" squares refers to 90 degrees from? derned if I know a square is 90 degrees, so they're 90 degrees from each other? cuz the moon is nowhere near mars at present... like at N and W (or E) respectively, for example? that's what i'm guessing.... I"m guessing on this - I know astronomers use these terms, too, but they use them differently (plus they have a lot of other terms that astrologers do nothing with) when 2 bodies are very near it's called a conjunction... and when they are 180 away it's opposition.... sounds good so far :) makes mathematical sense anyway but i dont know if astrologers use the terms for the same thing(or even understand the terms at all) ;) conjunction of jupiter and venus due around the 23rd of the month if i recall corectly.... * `glo_ was looking up a quote ("I have made this letter longer than usual, because I lack the time to make it short") and found it was from Blaise Pascal > lotta good quotes here > hi shammes hey glo:) > more from Pascal: "Do you wish people to think well of you? Don't speak well of yourself." hehe...good quote...can i use it? > sure! "True eloquence takes no heed of eloquence, true morality takes no heed of morality." (from "Pensees" [1670]) more Pascal: "I lay it down as a fact that if all men knew what others say of them, there would not be four friends in the world." "The state of man: inconstancy, boredom, anxiety." oh, skyman would like that one he that is skyman hehe "What is man in nature? Nothin in relation to the infinite, everything in relation to nothing, a mean between nothing and everything." okay... "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." i have seen the enemy, and the enemy is me wow glo oooh, here's another one woops, i think it was supposed to be " I have seen my buddy, and my buddy is me ! " "I have discovered that all human evil comes from this, man's being unable to sit still in a room." i have seen my machanic, and my mechanic is me? I'm still wanting to know at what point the ancestors of the tailed and tailless brachiators diverged from our tailless non-brachiating ancestors I don't suppose any paleo-anatomists with a specialty in brachiation have shown up since that discussion wound down inconclusively? i have seen a monkey, and a monkey isnt me:P * |PythonS| is a monkey's uncle Let me see there was homo erectus and homo sapiens and uh what was the other one? kromagnon? erectus plausabus yeah thats it :P not implausible :) of the three only sapiens made it somewheres out of africa well, that is plausable traveled to eastern europe if we were a real Mensa group, we'd have organized talks given by experts in various fields so we could ask the hard questions and get somewhere with'em adopted wolves as domestic dogs and survived becuase of it when did that occur, plad, do you know? ask me anything about pc's, i am the expert :) about 180 thousand years ago or that maybe sooner cant rember the article wolves were used to clean our hands i first heard, first paper towels :) cro magnon was homo sapiens sapiens hey captq. ltns started to think that cable modem had done you in. they used them to hunt with and shared living with them and of course protection from the wilds especially at nite cool hey glo, jot me down as the pc guy :) hiyas ned....been away on family business.... bbl it was the inability of erectus and magnon to adopt this strategy that was their ultimate end if you say cro magnon died out, then whos descendants are we? so we survived because...we joined a gang? i thought cro magnon were the austrailians no yes:) cromagnon were neiadrathals(sp) cro-magnons died out...probably killed by our ancestors... cromagnon and neanderthals were somewhat distinct oh i thought we were the ancesters:) I thought CM were just in Europe and their pets... Auel addressed much of her "EArth Children" series to that distinction, that crucial point in human evolution/development (cro magnon vs neanderthals)