<_^glo`> mere academic stress alone would be a dream ride. <_^glo`> it's just work :) Plus my misanthropy hasnt been aided by my reading alot of Swift and Pope Lately swift and pope? <_^glo`> phlly, have you ever read C.P. Snow's "The Two Cultures" ? No, I havent <_^glo`> it was out of print for quite awhile, but it's available again <_^glo`> one of the best things I've ever read for understanding the most fundamental changes and conflicts in the 20th (nearly 21st) century <_^glo`> it was originally a speech (the annual Rede Lecture) at Cambridge University how will reading it help my situation, I am already living it <_^glo`> Snow was a novelist, a government bureacrat, and a scientist, and was never wholly comfortable in any of those worlds; because he was in all of them, he had to somehow come to terms with their mutual antipathy hey damnit fr8!! <_^glo`> he did some damned good thinking - I think it's neat that he got it all articulated so those of us who try can take advantage of what he figured out about it <_^glo`> I got my copy (paperback) through amazon.com - fast, price is right; generally the discounts wipe out the shipping charges heya efie, glo <_^glo`> with this edition, I'd recommend going straight to Snow and leaving somebody else's introduction for afterward <_^glo`> heya fr8man <_^glo`> hmmm briefly distracted by a Bosendorfer (being played by Tori Amos) wheee glo: ah nice I like tori; I wanna steal her voice for my next program I've had the pleasure of seeing and hearing her piano live <_^glo`> this is the concert model with, what is it, 7? 9? extra bass notes back to back with the harpsichord, on the boys for pele tour <_^glo`> wtg sym oh, it was good :) fr8: yep, tori is amazing, just got a cd by her efex: which ? I have all but her latest <_^glo`> she sings well - I'd like to hear more of the piano work I have not listened to her lately <_^glo`> hear and see asym: heh , dunno!!!! great music tho glo: see her live then glo: I appreciated the "piano suite" she had on one of her EPs <_^glo`> hmm, sounds good - which one? what's an EP? <_^glo`> <-- dodobird efex: people generally agree that her older stuff was best glo: one of the "single" CDs that has usually from 3-7 songs on it. Usually remixes and rarities <_^glo`> ah, thanks beat me to it chris =] haha asym: ok, good to know, no idea date of this either...but I about fell over when I heard it, so many styles, so good at them all... efex: yeah Frank: have you heard Spacetime Continuum? I heard one of their tapes once Scrybe had one efex: hey, IRCAM is using Ionizer (my warez) for the restoration of their tape vault :-) ahhh.. downstairs we have this string of lights with changeable patterns with the ambient music it's so nice :) nice fr8: WOW!!! Chris when do you leave for AU the 16th for those that don't know, ircam is like one of the main places in the world for non-commercial music/technology development... For how long? arriving at 11:25 on the 18th Sorry, I meant how long are you staying there <_^glo`> thanks efex :) congrats, fr8 :) thanks :-) for at least 3 months. I'm permitted to stay for a full year, but I was offered a new position at the job I'm currently (which is going to help pay for school), so I think I should get to that as soon as it's available in Jan ( i knew what you meant) and his"warez" Ionizer is something every electronic musician has at least heard of.... :-) I would like to travel someday besides canada and the US ehehhe Ionizer also got top honors in a denoising shootout in some german music zine run by nerds. heh yeah\ Id really like to go to london fr8: Xcellent! I want to visit London and Cairo :-) londen is kewl... I'd like to check out the Andes too londOn andes would be GREAT record shopping in london *Drool* it's so cheap to go to london.. i know! ambient soho where coldcut get their records Of course if I end up where my path is taking me right now, Ill be travelling all the time a million others... asym: ya, that would be kewl...I hardly know what to buy tho...every couple years I get someone to tune me into today... Ill be spending most of my time in Africa that scares me efex: i want to hear your scores for Discovery I took down some of the names of the upcoming docs... phlly: wow!!! we lust to go to the serengeti frank: where in africa? efex unfortunately I wont get to see such things.... My view will be filled with that of dying big continent there :) asym: kewl! Chris everywhere the entire continent is an infectious disease hotzone yeah.. thanks to the human race's refusal to leave the rainforests alone asym: dunno when there are broadcasts, I never know except for cbc stuff We unlocked AIDS www.disinfo.com we unlocked ebola lets see what other travesty we can create phlly: ya has a wealth of counterintelligence and data on the state of the world ummm, I dont think we really are to blame for aids or ebola, that stuff just kinda happens. Ofcourse, the fact that we travel makes it a global concern. efex: what is the wackiest scale you ever used? fr8: hmmm.... <_^glo`> it was sea travel that brought the plague to europe from asian ports centuries ago you look at every major infection disease or imm. outbreak and WE are to blame for everyone <_^glo`> it more than decimated the populations of europe and the british isles at the time. Something like 1/5 to 1/3 or more died 1/3 at least anyways fr8: you know, it would have to be something nameless ... something I made up for some particular sound. I have done that on a number of occasions...more so than using like dorian or mixlydian or whatever... the flushing out of endogenous species that werent meant to mingle with mankind thats where such things arise fr8: your harmony thing sounds way kewl, btw efex: thanks. well we have rapid transit and 5 billion people, of course we're the catalyst <_^glo`> you're being greedy with that blame thang, phlly where is my little Dianora ? fr8: ordered AM III and dsp24/16, will see how they work... Phlly0: aids came from hunting of chimps, a timeless practice. THERE she is! efex: neato <_^glo`> it was transportation and commerce that brought it from Africa to other parts of the world, yes. fr8: ya, if they work, great, otherwise pay the digi piper as usual! hahahahahaha, digi sucks! * Teratogen loves Dianora fr8: I am SO glad to hear someone say that! their mix24 crap is giving me such a headache! forking goons designing these cards freightoi and you cant blame that on ourselves? AIDS has been around for countless yrs fr8: I have had to use their stuff since 1989 when I bought sound tools....a long succession of digi policy I have watched and been a victim of! it was never identified <_^glo`> heya jss evening glory when chimp hunting became exploitable, the disease was finally able to gain a foothold for transmission fr8: that explains why the plugs trickle so slow then....pretty clever to use same card for everything, wish I had the conversion proggie!!!! AIDS was a result of a 1950's Army experiment in the Nevada Desert, that went awry Teratogen dont be a fool *** Teratogen kicked from #mensa by |PythonS| (no it wasn't) *** Teratogen has joined channel #Mensa was too ! Phlly0: bull poopy, it was not chimp hunting that was commercialized, they hunted chimps to survive. It is the fact that they nookiated outside their immediate surroundings that started the problem <_^glo`> both factors were involved -- more people got the virus when chimp-hunting (and eating) was done on a larger commercial scale hey fr8, there is a legal product that will make you digi's enemy ... a proggie to dl the mix flashrom from a mix system and upload it inot a dsp card to make it a mix!!!heheheh perfectly legal cause you don't sell rm contents... did they eat the chimps? efex, you are raving settle down take a deep breath tera: yep. efex: hahahaha, neato! seres them right! define nookiated Ive never heard that word tera: there...raving indeed! fr8 knows what I am discussing... nooky nooky nookie nookie Philly: exchange of bodily fluids <_^glo`> and more got it from the butchering processes than from eating them ; people involved directly in the enterprise exactly wtg glo <|PythonS|> teratogen you want a kickban, right? nope <_^glo`> the new york times had an excellent series on Africa for several weeks - one of the weeks, the emphasis was on the economic effects of AIDS in Africa Yes that article was very good certainly it was not eating them that gave them the disease, assuming they cooked the beasts. <_^glo`> ah, you saw it :) I was so impressed I read the whole thing aloud to my husband while he was cooking dinner (am I wierd or what) glo: in addition to all the other misery, I believe in some countries the effect has been devastating I saw the nightline review of the results too most of the footage of the press conference too AIDS is my thing =] efex: forget the yamaha poop, look at scope and pulsar. <_^glo`> the recent thing on TV about the most current research emphasised the effects of the chimp hunting, butchering, and consumption, factors that were only understood better recently recently being the last few weeks glo: geez here I was thinking how great it was to get passionate enuff about things to read them out to yer SO in a big huff! :-) <_^glo`> everytime they uncover another layer, eyeballs swing to it ;P glo: yeah, that's true.. i never heard of that really.. epidemiology is fascinating <_^glo`> yeah, it is! phlly: yes it is fr8: fair nuff, pulsar looks good, dunno about pulsar... scope u mean? the last true detective d0h ya I mean scope 1 scope card system, same price as digi mix core...15 DSP chips. It almost forces one to take a Gaian perspective <_^glo`> what do you think of the WHO, phlly? what about plugin compatibility? and proggies like logic? excuse my ignorance, but define gain perspective <_^glo`> (aside from crichton books ;P) glo WHo and cdc, the two organizations I would like to work for evntually [WHO = World Health Organization; CDC = Center for Disease Control. g^] <_^glo`> Gaia: one term for the planet earth and all life on it efex: it is asio compatable <_^glo`> cool, phlly Gaia model doesn't work with humans Im going to either get an MD or PhD in Infectious and Immunologic Diseases glo: and the interconnectedness of said beings/stuff nothing works with humans, humans are wacky fr8: ya, but logic still needs to have some kind of control surface emulated to use the card's functions... efex: all midi'd <_^glo`> gaia model includes humans, even if some humans would like to edit themselves/us out geometric growth works with humans fr8: mix has 4 chips, right? scope has 15? mix has 6 thats a basic tenet of ecology and biology fr8: ok...still midi'd or not, I would need some kind of interface... applicable to all organisms the one important factor that almost all limited resource, overpopulation models forget is the most important resource of all... efex: oh, interface is there nice and pretty. easy to get to freightoi dont leave me out <_^glo`> in berkeley, the gaia bookstore is almost going out of business -- they're trying to do tens of thousands ofdollars in fund-raising so they can move to a partially rent-subsidized situation in a new building downtown <_^glo`> remnds me of the old Co-op - got really focked up behind money and politics. between misuse of funds and confusion about aims, it finally self-destructed. glo: I haven't gone into this in detail, but some my my books remarked that the model doesn't work with such a new environmental factor as mankind pray tell jss it will most certainly work we are still in logarithmic growth time will prove the theorem correct Phlly0: no large scale population growth is actually geometric for very long. Phlly: mind. fr8: good to know!!! maybe I will end up with one of those, I simply have to upgrade from my quad 950 /pt II, yam card +_ AM III will at least work for now I hope, long enuff till there is a real option to digi...like possibly scope <_^glo`> then the model needs further development, jss efex: check in april the ecosystem will only be able to support x amount of humans <_^glo`> the world is not going to retrofit to fit a faulty model ;) the faulty model needs alteration when that # is reached we will, in one form or another, drive ourselves down <_^glo`> the world is bigger and realer than any model of it Phlly0: but that number is unknown ;-) fr8: heh kewl...if I find something better than yam card I won't mind, I can always sell and replace, not like it is expensive...:-) freightoi, never said it wasnt, but it DOES exist efex: yeah, look at the lexi stuff too I pray im not here when it happens Phlly0: ofcourse, but there is no way to predict what it is or if it is even reasonable to assume that the human population would approach it. I have an intuition that it wont be pretty <_^glo`> there's more to life than being in a panic, gasping for breath, and moaning philly.....dont worry....we wont be around that time..:)) fr; then the theorem still holds glo: hear, hear <_^glo`> there is more than doom and destruction before us. <_^glo`> thanks sym :) fr8: lex was my first interest, I will wait until the playing field levels a bit; I want a digi tdm replacment. efex: gotcha, well, scope looks like da sh!t right now damn nick comps Phlly0: what theorem? fr; test [freightoi] test uhmmmmmm how can you have a theorem in ecology? there is no formal system. perhaps you mean postulate? fr8: thanks for the insight. I think the yam card will go well with my 03d...but it is no tdm clone! efex: yummie, I wanna 03d <_^glo`> mathematics can be used as a way to structure thinking about many different subjects. It isn't magic. the basic theory that an ecosystem can only support geomtric growth for so long Phlly0: that much is essentially tautological before resources are too scarce to cause dimunition of the pop Phlly: that is academic fr8: :-) I am pretty happy with 03d... efex: gimmie How appropriate, I am a student hehe frank: it's late Phlly: school sucks, join the circus hehe fr8: no way you have lots of great toyz! :-) I will use it for convertor, the yam card convertor I think is iffy... chirs I know Phlly: the fun starts when you try to guesstimate the effect genius has on our welfare. genius on our welfare? go on.... I think the overwhelming number of non-genius will cancel <_^glo`> <-- watching feature on early Jaguars (cars) on History Channel <_^glo`> (early crash test of E6 model: crumple zone works) Why bother quantifying that? and the waste of genius Phlly0: look at the world you live in now and compare it to europe 1,000 years ago <_^glo`> the premium on native intelligence is getting higher, not lower would someone fax freightoi a snapshot of ethiopia or any other third world nation, prehaps the slums of china will suffice asym: I do not think you can quantify it. However, in retrospect, one can certainly gain an appreciation for the effects it has on our life. <_^glo`> phlly wants his misanthropy either justified or eliminated, fr8. Think there's a chance of either? <_^glo`> he's having trouble achieving entente with it just as a side remark, 1000 years ago Europe was obsolete in comparison to the civilized cultures of the world Phlly0: sorry, compare it to back then and look at RELATIVE population welfare. Again. I repeat my former statement. Phlly0: sorry, does not hold. using developed nations doesnt hold water Phlly0: striving to develop undeveloped does because the majority of the population of the world resides in 3rd world nations Will never happen <_^glo`> he may not be aware of that much of our earlier history, you guys those nation states are too chaotic Phlly0: bahhh, no hope, go die <_^glo`> it's easy to assume this is the worst of all possible worlds when the home truths about the widespread miseries in earlier times are a vague blur around the edges of the picture <_^glo`> this assumption is a failure to fully investigate the context of the present, which includes all that has come before: all those earlier presents. glo: all we see is ruins of once quite fancy buildings Phlly0: chaotic nations have little to do with stasis. It is that static nation that you should fear. one that never changes. The entire globe is entering a chaotic state and this is a good thing, not a bad thing. <_^glo`> a lot more was going on than buildings quietly moldering away, jss attempts to develop 3rd world nations will not succeed glo: exactly <_^glo`> the whole world was what you'd term a 3rd world nation, phlly Phllyy: bahhh, says you in your little chair <_^glo`> it's been evolving (socially and culturally) at different rates in different places and times (and none of those rates static for long) hell, japan was third world 150 years ago glo i dont know if I agree with that because you still had heirarchical societies <_^glo`> <-- into thought, not the intoxication of thought ;) Phlly0: societies are heirarchical now <_^glo`> more knowledge, less ignorance. good. <_^glo`> *grunt* :) <_^glo`> <-- primitive my point exactly <_^glo`> this also applies to you, phlly Phlly: what is wrong with heirarchical? <_^glo`> nothing non-hierarchical about 3rd world countries. Is this the romanticization-of-the-savage thang that keeps coming up in hyper-intellectuallized circles? scientists seem to agree upon, that when people of the poor countries begin to fight for the material "quality" of life we have, somebody will have to tell them "sorry, you can't have that." dunno, never been in a hyper-intellectualized circle, sounds painful. <_^glo`> another reason to read C.P. Snow's "The Two Cultures" <_^glo`> he was addressing this in 1958 when it wasn't yet a fashionable topic (aside -- phlly and I were discussing Snow's book earlier) jss: bahh, it is in the best interest of the rich countries to develop the poor ones. in a decentralized world it is best that wealth is spread. this is in oposition to imperialism which profited at the expense of the third world. I seriously must go to bed freightoi: right, and there are six billion people who all have the same right to a good life, but the world won't take 8-11 billion people consuming resources like Americans Yeah, I can barely keep my eyes open Organic chemistry and evolution await me tomorrow, as well as a paper on Gulliver's travels funfun :) you betcha what time tomorrow? =] as soon as I wake up jss-: no one knows whatthe world can support because such information requires the knowledge of future innnovation, an impossibility. As it stands now we can produce more food than the planet needs. We have political problems that prevent us from accomplishihng this. thanks to my procrastination today <_^glo`> yeah, the average american consumes too damned much, and uses way too much packing materials too. remedial education in social responsibility would do a lot of good. it isn't only 'backward 3rd world countries' that suffer from ignorance but $100 is worht my procrastination, given my financial state heh glo: absolutely <_^glo`> <-- can't afford to pay anybody to stick around. get some rest, phlly, come back tomorrow night and tell us how it was :) if all people started consuming like Americans, not only in food, that would mean 80% of people starting to consume dozens times more - think about those figures jss: scary it isn't about feeding currently, but can we produce ten times more? anyway, it is absolutely essential that the rich nations of the world spread the joy to the poor nations because now we exist in an economy based more and more on innovation, creation, information, etc; The resources most in demand are no longer fixed. More ideas? more wealth is created and we all benefit in some way (assuming a rational distribution scheme). if we are going to make that industrial growth using fossil fuels many of them won't last ten years www.who.int its amusign to look at the outbreaks page Cholera....Cholera..... Cholera.... Now that is a fun disease lol and on the other hand, who is going to give the world power generation ten times the present using solar, wind energy? ummmm, wheeee you havent seen anything until you've seen at least a photograph of a cholera tent and cholera buckets jss: other alternatives will probably be needed jss-: who knows, there is certainly enough power in solar to scale quite nicely for some time to come, but then again, who knows what will come down the line. so many crises, so little time chaos is your friend fear it and get left behind change is eternal freightoi: it's promising, but it won't be here to bring all poor people to American level of living freight: it is freightoi: not in a very long time anyway jss-: well, who knows really freightoi: I know that much :P (isn't much really) it will certainly take time to clean up the political mess created by europeans and americans over the last several hundred years.