hi how is harvard today? ok how is your composition coming? ok how is israel? israel is ok, with the usual tensions to make life interesting i just found out i'm going to do a junior tutorial with Bernard Rands wow you know him? i have heard of him yeah well i asked him he said sure he's writing an opera for aspen's 50th anniversary that should be interesting yeah so my current composition teacher introduced us and said that i was writing an opera he said, good, maybe i can steal some of yours how is yours coming? i'm not really working on it now too much schoolwork? no just other projects it's going to be my thesis so i still have a while i envy you so much for your ability to compose music did i ever send you a file? you tried, but it didnt come please try again ok, it is coming faster this time <_^glo`> hi, jrd. are you familiar with the work of Lowell Liebermann? (been meaning to ask you that for awhile & don't want to forget this time) i don't think so <_^glo`> ok i was playing through the moonlight tonight, though! :) i read a book earlier about the congress of vienna Hi K J <|killjoy|> hi skyguy where beethoven first presented his 7th symphony cool, Avigail :) that sounds interesting :) <|killjoy|> avi: that the conference where they agreed to the little sausage standard? it was played totally-unrehearsed by a group of musicians who happened to show up that's many people's favorite beethoven symphony and yet is largely unknown to the general public that's a shame beethoven himself conducted he was deaf by then and it nonetheless received an immense ovation interesting, avigail :) yes, and he made a mistake -- forgot one whole part my favorite is his sixth <|killjoy|> www.audiohighway.com has an interesting hourlong audio biography of beethoven for free so somebody had to "correct" him there's lots of stories of the deaf beethoven conducting his own works i suppose that it should be possible there is a dance troupe in israel called "the sounds of silence" whenever my mother would yell at me to turn down my music (always classical) all of the dancers are deaf i would tell her that i wanted to compose like Beethoven they feel the music through the vibrations in the floor and in order to do so, I'd have to be deaf :) avigail :):) * _^glo` is improvising tonight -- a couple of pork steaks, some shallots celery carrots mushrooms, a can of shitake mushroom soup, a splash of something & maybe sage and herbs du Provence, a spoon or two of creme fraiche at the end i am serious -- they are very good too I believe you avigail :) I don't know whether to be awestruck or bust out laughing. dancing is a little different than conducting though be awestruck. <_^glo`> my son works with hearing impaired young people (has for 7-8 years now) - he does a lot of music with them (he has a music BA from UC Berkeley) they are deserving of it well he could feel the music through the floor (assuming he was barefoot) enough to give some sort of hint as to how the musicians were doing bbiab... gotta get a drink of water. i'm sure he wasn't barefoor i am sure too but feeling beats <_^glo`> the ears aren't the only equipment we have for sensing vibrations, tempo etc. is very different than hearing how an orchestra is playing a piece his music is very complicated and involves all sorts of complicated balances have any of you heard of the Heilgenstadt Testament? <_^glo`> I haven't it was Beethoven's famous statement a letter, really <_^glo`> the letter that was some/all of what was to be his will? apologizing to many for his recent ire, and admitting his readily approaching deafness it's one of the only truly personal writings of his when he felt himself going deaf, he should have turned to mathematics -- the ultimate music uhm i shudder to think of a world deprived of beethoven's 'deaf' music true but now it is deprived of the theorems he may have proved you know stalin forbade beethoven 9 to be played Hi Rtist :) bbl because and i misquote, it made him 'feel like doing good things to people' avigail that is a beautiful statement, "Mathematics is the ultimate music," then im tone deaf it's not true though they are related he was probably just jealous that churchill had co-opted beethoven's 5th it is true jr and the french resistance, right? no and what can it mean? look -- suppose you tried to compose music that cannot be played it's very easy to do that because it requires a mile-long piano keyboard and 10 fingers on each hand somebody who reads music can understand the score and appreciate it somebody who does not doesnt hear the music ]it is the same with mathematics reading a score is never a substitute for hearing a piece if you can read the notes -- you hear the music a score is a very rough approximation of sound and mathematicians can compose for infinite pianos in infinite dimensional spaces so can bad composers... <_^glo`> depends on the mind doing the reading but what is the music? the score or the sound? the sound, of course the score is like a crude map then it is not the composer but the performer who makes the music the composer just draws crude maps yes, physically makes it no you just said the score is a crude map the composer envisons the sound and tries to make it discernible for a player <_^glo`> off to slice shallots etc - back in a short while and that is all you have from beethoven -- his scores yes that's all you have from any composer well the mathematician envisions the mathematics -- his published articles may be "crude maps" ok but he sees the beauty of the structure but how does that make math the ultimate music? because your music is bound by human limitations -- what can be physically performed his isnt yes but it's not music if it's not performed why not, ultraviolet light is light, even if it cannot be seen by the eye light is not the creation of a human mind maybe we should call mathematics "ultramusic" maybe we shouldn't try to make one a subset of the other do you play an instrument, avigail? do you mean to tell me that if i discovered a hitherto unknown score by mozart it is not music because it has not yet been performed no, i can't play anything, unfortunately if it was never performed, then it is just a score, yes that is why i envy those who can hello heya hi janeliz how do you listen to a piece of paper? very carefully ... with your mind jr YOu crinkle it a bunch of times while paying attention. but you don't even play an instrument! i suppose no one needs performers, huh? just sheaves of paper? of course one needs them you have a point to make, jr? instruments are highly overated. performers interpret the music, not just play it * spcman_ attempts to calculate the odds of everyone agreeing with everyone else on everything. arryana, we were talking about whether the score or the performance are the real music lots of zeros there spcman * jrdrisc writes a piece about it ...there's a kind of hush, all over the world, tonight.... we are all contemplating our musical navels, spcman I can think of way better stuff to contemplate. * jrdrisc writes a navel nocturne * JaneLiz is munchung lunch to which tune, janeliz Don't interrupt her, she might bite her tounge. to hole "hole" celebrity skin such a nice bunch of grrls. i dont care for whay they look like, I like the music same as for marilyn manson what does marilyn manson have to do with music? That's probably something you'd never hear a guy say. heh:) * spcman_ starts to hear *The beautiful people* playing in his head. is that by beethoven too? I would'nt know. YOu'll have to ask Marilyn Manson. MM was just over here recently for a series of concerts with a few other bands unfortunately, I didnt get to go awwwwww actually I can barely tolerate that kind of music. i like anything from MM to motzart with the exception of jazz and techno yeah and that "Joe Sixpack" guy. What's his name? dont know of him hello as hello, jane hi as well I've had just about all of this excitement I can take. Night folks. nighty night spc