some confuse religious with regular * gilagain is grateful for the tolerance Jonesey, the discussion I was refering to was regarding electronic intelligence, it was a bit of a debate really, as to whether it would be better to program a vast library of knowledge to an artificial conscousness, or if it would be better to provide said "being" with the means to learn about the world on it's own. Sounds like it was quite a debate. Allkemest, I think you'd need both. It made for some interesting conversation Mentoring. I need a Mentor Ord, that was basically the conclusion, but rather than both in one being it would be better to evolve the two seperately, then let them communicate. Providing human insight along with self discovery. the "independent" being would have a greater likelihood of developing a new set of viewpoints, a better anthropological study, while the "educated" being would be better suited for utilitarian purposes. Wouldn't there be danger at some point that the artificial intelligence gets smart and strong enough to take over from humans? Yes Kurtzweil's spiritual machines - in about 4 yrs but is that a real "danger"? the higest form of consciousness would prevail. it is if you're getting wiped out * gilagain sings Bob Dylan tunes These "beings" would be our progeny, so we would not be being wiped out, simply evolving allkemest:Like how we "evolved" the neanderthals into extinction? But what if these "beings" saw us as inferior? hell-o all i dont really belong to mensa. Jonesey: exactly Hello DasGoat dasgoat, neither do I and not dissimilar to how we evolved our grandparents to extinction. allke:we didn't kill them Like the car-drivers "evolved" the horse riders to extinction. Okay....thanks But we're talking about human extinction. Jonesey, no we did not, and personally I would not be afraid of a violent human overthrowing speak for urself, pal I would not worry about extinction per se see above! Any being more intellegent than ourselves would be sure to recognize the value we provide as a diverse, emotional race What about the spiritual aspects? What about the "soul"? * gilagain perks up Leese, I do not feel I understand the soul, and so I cannot conjecture about it. * gilagain just sang "Soul Man" tonight lol\ Why would an artifical intelligence follow such a rule system unless it's the one we give it. put on the suit and did the whole shtick But I think "the soul" has a lot to do with what makes humanity different from animals. soul was a great music genre...gave rise to funk, disco, rap, hip-hop... Humanity ARE animals. Intelligence comes in many packages "the soul" is a superstitious fiction. I'm not disagreeing that humans are animals. I bet you don't have dogs Leese. Leese, perhaps there is some defining level of sprituality that humans posses over animals, one that grants us the free will to do evil rather than good, but I have seen no evidence of such. I have fish. and porcupines loll why the need for "spirituality"? what about "intelligence"? phones are cars Or is it phones are in cars or some of them maybe or rather for certain Humans are animals? Enlighten me plants *not* insects *not* fish *not* mammals *BINGO* A dog may have survival instincts, but does it feel compassion, remorse, guilt? yes yes Leese, who are we to say the dog does not? gil:what do u think humans are? plants? no Does it comprehend you versus else, not generically, but some do. humans are humans * gilagain shakes his head And what is to say that humans do feel these things? Lot don't I think dogs learn behaviors from humans that make them appear to emote. * gilagain claps for Leese these "feelings" may may be advanced survival instincts Dogs "appear to emote" in the wild, guys. interpreting behavior very interesting There has been a sort of turing test for this, dogs failed for the most part, but on occasion they passed, and so did some monkeys. Who put the big barrier between the spiritual, emotional and intelectual anyway? I guess I did. Historically I mean, leese lol Not sure. You guys are fun I was getting bored for a moment there ;o) One could argue very easily that emotions are nothing more than an intelectual response to one's environment. Dont you just love these guys gilagain ? for certain ;o) * allkemest still can't spel :-P I guess my original point in bringing up spirituality, was simply to highlight the possibility than a non-biologic intelligence would not have a soul, and might not be compassionate enough in its wisdom, to allow humanity to survive. So your soul is bound to carbon? Oh? One needs a "soul" to be compassionate? It might see as a planetary parasite. Thats okay allkemest ...we can guess /:) James Brown=most compassionate human?? He is the godfather of soul after all... Not sure if the soul is bound to carbon. We don't know, do we? And I was bringing around my argument that emotion, spirit and soul could be an inherant aspect of intellegence. my face is hurting The "soul" is a superstitious fiction. Discussion of it is silly. does anyone care? Perhaps you are right. A lot of this is social evolution - emotions and such. I'm not sure I agree Jonesy. We don't have any facts to prove it does or doesn't exist. I love 'em leese:So it has the same status as the tooth fairy, for now. * gilagain prays for Jonesey ;o) thanx Yes. I think it has at least tooth-fairy status. But we can't discount it, or the tooth fairy. sure ;o) Jonesey, I disagree, soul is much like the heavens were centuries ago, we think there is something out there, we have no idea what it is, and so we make up a lot of fancy stories to try to explain it. If history repeats itself our first theories will be wrong. Shall we tread into religion's purpose? * gilagain waits to hear something he hasn't heard before Germs and bacteria once only held tooth-fairy status. I think that soul of some form exists, becouse we are so certain to have observed it, but it's nature and oragins are totally unfounded. I beleive it is most likely rooted in itellect, and social conditioning. why the need for the term "soul", then? seems superfluous. Just so much intellectual flab Leese, and we thought germs and bacteria were something entirely different that what they turned out to really be. lol, Jonesey Jonesey, we need the term sould so we can communicate. It's just a tool of language.. funny, I communicate rather well without it. You don't need a soul to communicate ;o) Feel free to do so. Just to live ;o) Yes, but it is much easier to talk about soul than advanced social conditioning and intellectual crutches on faith. morning irishrose Hi rosie * allkemest must sleep now. it has been entertaining. Sweet dreams. The smartest people I know have a strong faith in God Goodnight allkemest gil:funny, just the opposite here. * mary^ agrees with gilagain smartest ppl I know are rank atheists, dumbest ppl I know are religious. Very strong correlation. I could have guessed, Jonesey that has been your experience yupyup. I hope it improves jonesey - the purpose of religion = bind to bind men to men, too bad atheism can't say the ame I don't believe in God or a supreme being, but I do think there's "something" beyond physical life. quarf:oh, that was the purpose of the crusades? <[coal]> salutations nay they wanted to get rid of infidels like you :) lol Jonesey, I could point to a thousand things in the observable universe that indicate an organizing creative force is present in the universe. The dumbest people I know are sheep to the preacher, the stupidest think there is no God, and the most intelligent recognize there must be something holding htis all togother. quarf:more like bind men to the rack I could have guessed, that also, Leese alk:you're a sheep to superstition. not really Of course, gilagain. I am not religious We're been doing science for a minute fraction of the age of the universe. Let's give it a bit of time before rushing off into superstition. I do not claim to understand. * gilagain smiles at Leese But I know enough to tell that I do not live in a random universe. Could be all those gaps in our knowledge you view as evidence of "something holding it together" won't be there ultimately. Time will tell. Gaps aren't evidence. They're just gaps. a creative force indeed not be an anthropomorphic projection as we have imagined, but something makes those amino acids form cells! The something is not necessarily a conscious being. very true Ok, everyone put on your thinking gaps ;o) At the very least you would have to admit that the universe is made of matter and energy. THE WHOLE UNIVERSE hmmm All of it, together. The definition of god has been warped by religion. It's too bad. :-) hmm... not the hole I was thinking of I have a bizarre personal theory that this "binding" of all things unexplainable will someday be proved and linked together mathematically. You'd never expect the Spanish Inquisition! Religion is like a virus, self replicating, but not disprovable, and spreads because of ignorance, and fear of death. Remember most religions deny evolution. The concept of God is not in conflict with science, just religion is. Ord, thank you for clarifying that. Religion is nothing unto itself God has become a bad word in the shadow of religion. It helps to be specific IRC log ended Sun Feb 21 22:18